tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575804792126536975.post7290616545966647498..comments2023-11-02T00:33:00.040-07:00Comments on Sowell's Law Blog: Thorium Nuclear Reactor Not the World SaviorRoger Sowellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15390264574157209871noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575804792126536975.post-17289369324464080042015-06-18T19:14:43.476-07:002015-06-18T19:14:43.476-07:00Mr. Mills, I also will not waste my time in any fu...Mr. Mills, I also will not waste my time in any further response to you. You clearly are not an engineer, and have fallen victim to the smooth-talking nuclear proponents. <br /><br />As to the large size, you have apparently no appreciation for the law of economy of scale. I suggest you read up on this. Small nuclear plants cannot possibly hope to be economic. If the reverse were true, every nuclear plant would be very small at this time. You should read my article on Small Modular Reactors, which is article 8 in the Truth About Nuclear Power series. <br /><br />As to the steam as a working fluid, it matters not what the working fluid is. You should consult an experienced process engineer to explain such things to you. In essence, if a working fluid other than water-steam were economic and practical, it would be used in power plants. As I also explain in the article 29 on High Temperature Gas Reactors, a gas for working fluid also has insurmountable problems. And for the record, yes, I am quite familiar with the natural-gas-air working fluid that is used in the Brayton cycle of a gas turbine power plant. That point is adequately addressed also in article 29 of the Truth About Nuclear Power article. <br /><br />The corrosion issues are but one of the many fatal flaws in the thorium molten salt process about which you sing the praises. Perhaps future material scientists will develop a material that can properly hold up for 40 or more years against the heat and corrosive nature of molten radioactive fluoride salts, and the incessant vibrations, and the occasional earthquake, and the routine thermal shocks of periodic cool downs and heating up cycles. That is all the material needs to do. <br /><br />Finally, many hundreds of experienced process engineers agree with my writings and conclusions on nuclear power. They can see the obvious flaws in every design that has been advanced thus far.Roger Sowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15390264574157209871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575804792126536975.post-77441076776715783552015-06-18T13:31:06.963-07:002015-06-18T13:31:06.963-07:00I am not going to waste a lot of time with comment...I am not going to waste a lot of time with commenting. I read your link. There are two obvious mistakes you make right out of the gate, which as I said earlier, tell me blatantly that you have not done your homework. <br /><br />The first is that LFTR's will have to be huge. Absolutely wrong. They were designed to be small, that is their biggest advantage, they will stay that way, because they can be built in factories on assembly lines and keep costs down. <br /><br />Second, they will not use steam for generation. <br /><br />If you had watched the video in full I cited, you would realize just how wrong these two statements you made are.<br /><br />On the issues of corrosion, perhaps you would find it interesting to listen to a video with some of the engineers who actually ran the MSRE at Oak Ridge. They did not think that either the issues of corrosion or Tritium were insurmountable, in any way, even back in the 1970's:<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knofNX7HCbg<br /><br />Thorium's biggest problem, it seems to me, is getting people to actually seriously study it.davidgmillshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13832408078898593947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575804792126536975.post-7724625178456478102015-06-16T16:59:53.769-07:002015-06-16T16:59:53.769-07:00Mr. Mills: First, I highly recommend that you rea...Mr. Mills: First, I highly recommend that you read my earlier article on Thorium-based nuclear power, "Thorium MSR No Better Than Uranium Process" that was article 28 of 30 in my series "The Truth About Nuclear Power." see <a href="http://sowellslawblog.blogspot.com/2014/07/the-truth-about-nuclear-power-part-28.html" rel="nofollow">link</a><br /><br />That article 28 is based on the Idaho National Laboratory publication, which I hope you will agree is sufficiently authoritative. <br /><br />Second, and for your information, I have read extensively on thorium-based power, as well as many other forms of nuclear power. I wrote on many of these in my Truth About Nuclear Power series. I am very familiar with the writings and talks of Mr. Sorensen, whom you mentioned in your comment. I can only say that he is a very good speaker. He is wrong on many points, and of course omits the critical points that doom the process to failure. <br /><br />Third, you suggest that my background as a process engineer in petroleum and petrochemicals has colored my judgement. I certainly hope so, as it appears that only seasoned process engineers can appreciate the dangers associated with a very hot molten salt of radioactive materials constantly eating away at the metal container, pumps, piping, valves, and heat exchanger tubes. We process engineers have first-hand experience with the results of corrosion, leaking tubes, and other such events in process plants. For nuclear advocates, such as yourself, to suggest that the MSR thorium plants will operate safely is completely naive. <br /><br />I again invite you to read my Article 28, linked above. Thorium-based processes have almost zero hope of ever being safe or economic, and for the reasons given in that article. You mentioned the Chinese effort, an effort that I follow. It is perhaps instructive that the Chinese care little at this point for either safety, or economics. It is quite apparent that the Chinese are about to learn some most important lessons in the fundamentals of process engineering: molten salts corrode metallurgy very quickly, and things go very badly very quickly when they corrode.Roger Sowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15390264574157209871noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3575804792126536975.post-77760294929691464662015-06-16T14:44:12.937-07:002015-06-16T14:44:12.937-07:00As a fellow attorney (retired) and thorium advocat...As a fellow attorney (retired) and thorium advocate for a number of years, I can only say your information on thorium is sorely lacking and your opinion seriously misplaced. David Archibald is not a good source of information on this issue. He may mean well, but he is not considered to be any kind of authority on the issue.<br /><br />The best source is thorium's leading advocate in the US, Kirk Sorensen, an ex-NASA engineer. He is the individual credited with bringing back interest in thorium reactors after learning about Alvin Weinberg's thorium project at Oak Ridge in the 60's and 70's.<br /> <br />Most of the critics on the internet are absolutely clueless about thorium and it's history and its potential. All seem clueless as to the process when you read their articles. So for you to site internet critics shows your own failure to do diligent research.<br /><br />Read everything you can find on the internet by Kirk Sorensen or view any number of videos of his numerous talks (TED and universities). Get up to speed. Kirk will walk you through it. I can't begin to do justice in a blog post.<br /><br />China is committed to making a liquid fluoride thorium reactor and will have one by 2020. It will be a game changer for the world. They will take Alvin Weinberg's design and Oak Ridge and go commercial with it. When Kirk put most of Oak Ridge's data on the internet, it was the Chinese who got excited and committed. <br /><br />To bad for us. We should have done it in the 70's, but we hitched our wagon to uranium and light water reactors rather than thorium and liquid salt cooled reactors.<br /><br />Perhaps since you are associated with the petrochemical industry, your lenses are colored. ( I grew up in Texas, went to law school there, and my first job as an attorney was working for Exxon, so I understand the basis of the bias).<br /><br />This is the best video compilation of Kirk's early talks TED and Calgary and his explanation of how he rediscovered thorium.<br /><br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9M__yYbsZ4davidgmillshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13832408078898593947noreply@blogger.com